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LP Gas Board Meeting Minutes
UTAH STATE LPG BOARD
October 14, 2011
Meeting Minutes
Awaiting Formal Approval
BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT
Boyd W. Cook,
Chair, LP Gas Board
Paul Bedont, LP Gas Board Member
Tom Clark, LP Gas Board Member
Jay Downs, LP Gas Board Member
Tracy Halladay, LP Gas Board Member
C. Brandon Hone, LP Gas Board Member
M. Jay Iverson, LP Gas Board Member
STAFF PRESENT
Brent Halladay, State Fire Marshal’s Office
Janet Read, State Fire Marshal’s Office
Hugo Rico, State Fire Marshal’s Office
Stan Robins, State Fire Marshal’s Office
Mat Sacco, State Fire Marshal’s Office
Lana Taylor, Assistant Attorney General
PRESENT
Alan Anderson, Pitcher Propane
Corey Christensen, Propane Advantage
Kevin Duncan, Mountain West Properties
Glen Ellingford, Western Petroleum
Angie Hasenohrl, Kiva Energy
Rich Maughan, Freeway Propane
Scott Sawards, Basin Propane Systems
Rob Wolfley, Garkane Propane
Item #1 The meeting was called to order at 10:00am in the Murray City Hall with Chairman Boyd Cook presiding. Chairman Cook welcomed everyone to the Board meeting and announced that Chief Deputy Coy Porter was excused because of a previous commitment and Counsel Lana Taylor would be late due to a court conflict.
Fire Marshal Brent Halladay apologized for the delay in the meeting date and stated that because of the weight of his new duties as Fire Marshal, he would be passing primary responsibility for the administration of the Board Program to Coy Porter, Chief Deputy Fire Marshal, who would also assume the role of Staff Assistant to the Board.
Item #2 on the agenda was the approval of the minutes of the June 23, 2011 Board Meeting. Chairman Boyd Cook asked if the Board Members had a chance to read the minutes. They did. There were no additions or corrections. C. Brandon Hone made the motion to approve the minutes as written and Tracy Halladay seconded the motion. All Board members voted in favor. The June 23, 2011 Board Meeting Minutes were approved.
Item #3 on the agenda was a report to the Board by Section Manager Stan Robins of the activities of the LP Gas program and monies collected since the last Board meeting. Stan reported that collections are about at the same point as in previous years. Brent explained that these monies are applied as “dedicated credits”. The Fire Marshal’s Office is tasked with the collection of $270,000 from license and certification fees from the LPG program (the largest contributor) as well as the Fire Extinguisher, Fireworks, Sprinkler and Fire Alarm programs. The fees are applied against the $270,000 Division budget. If the target is not met, cuts must be made.
Item #4 on the agenda was the introduction by Fire Marshal Halladay of newly appointed LP Gas Inspector, Kurt Nielsen, who will begin work with the Fire Marshal’s Office on Monday, October 17. He wanted to attend the meeting but had prior commitments. He has been with Amerigas for seven years. As prior Inspectors, Kurt is someone who knows the industry inside and out. He will only need to be tutored in the procedures of the office and then he will be ready to do his job. Prior to Kurt joining the team, there were two and a half dedicated Inspectors to the program. Now with the addition of Kurt, there will be three fully dedicated Inspectors. The legislature may add multi-jurisdictional Blasting Permits to the Fire Marshal’s office and one of the LP Inspectors may be asked to assist, however, the additional responsibility is not anticipated to occupy more than 20% of his time. The LPG program started with only a half-time inspector, so the program has come a long way.
Item #5 and Item #6 are postponed until the arrival of Assistant Attorney General, Lana Taylor.
Item #7 – Presentation to the Board by State Fire Marshal Brent Halladay of the new 2011 edition of NFPA 58, Liquefied Petroleum Gas Code. Mat Sacco issued a memorandum to the Industry with regard to the significant changes in the Code and requested comments. None were received. Concerns were expressed in the meeting with regard to cathodics testing and maintenance of underground installations. There are 3 requirements:
- Cathodic protection connected to the container
- Coverage of the container in a tar-like material
- Testing at least every 3 years for proper voltage
Corrosion depends on 3 things: soil moisture, type of soil and ph factor. Some containers are OK for 30 years. Some are gone in 5 years. Brent feels cathodic protection is in everyone’s best interest if done right.
Brent pointed out that on NFPA 58 page 35, substantial requirements are added. New containers are required to be tested upon installation or within 180 days (depending on weather). Then they are to be tested 12-18 months after the initial test. After that, they are to be tested every 3 years. The program can be costly if the testing does not show the proper voltage. The containers may need to be dug up and replaced if proper voltage cannot be maintained. Despite cost, we do not want leaks. The State Fire Marshal’s Office will probably be the testing agency. Hugo has become very good at it. The Office recommends that the Board adopt the 2011 Edition of the NFPA 58.
Board Member, Tom Clark has two comments:
- The Rocky Mountain Gas Association has a video on underground installations that is free to the propane industry for their education.
- He questions who will do the inspections, is the Code retroactive, does it apply just to commercial or to all and do we know where these installation are located?
Brent responded that the Division does know the locations of containers over 5,000 gallons whether above or below ground and they are inspected every two years. The new code requirements will apply to all underground installations. The owner of the container is responsible for having tanks inspected in compliance with the code. The testing will fall back on the distributors to test their customers’ containers every 3 years. The new requirements are not retroactive unless the Board wishes to make it so. However, when there are leaks, the situation becomes life-threatening and will be dealt with accordingly. We will not just arbitrarily require the new standard but will do so if a situation arises that is life-threatening.
Concern was expressed about whose responsibility was it to do the tests.
Cory pointed out that this test was like the other tests that the distributer does, only took a few minutes, provided safety to the customer and lessened the liability to the distributor. Chairman Cook stated that the test documentation needed to be provided to the owner and Rich Maughan, Freeway Propane, clarified that the distributor would do the test, keep a copy for their records and provide results to the owner, who is responsible to keep records of testing. Concern expressed about who was responsible to do the test – the owner of the tank or the distributor who fills it. What it came down to was that the distributor felt liability for anything that went into the tank and to protect himself, the distributor should do the test, keep a record of the test and also provide results to the owner. When filling for residential, if the owner did not have any documentation, then the distributor should do the test and provide documentation that the test results were where they should be and then proceed to fill. Do not depend on hearsay.
Brent confirmed that the new NFPA 58 required corrosion protection on new installations and was not retroactive.
Chairman Cook summed up thus:
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The Division would inspect tanks 5,000 gallons and larger
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The distributors would inspect smaller tanks and do cathodic testing, similar to how they do other tests.
It was also pointed out that new installations would be coated as per the coating manufacturer’s instructions and that new tanks were delivered with the new coating applied. When there was a chip or damage, it would be fixed.
Next, Brandon Hone wanted to clarify if di-electric fitting would not be required for plastic, which was confirmed. If a steel container was used and copper fittings used, electrolysis could be a problem.
Chairman Cook asked that the Board return to Item #5 which concerned the wording in the Board approved rule change in R710-6-4.10.5 which stated that “The requirements listed in Sections 4.10.2 and 4.10.3 of these rules do not apply to those who are dispensing for their own use and are not a business.” Sections 4.10.2 and 4.10.3 stipulate the need for the dispenser to work for a licensed concern.
Fire Marshal Halladay explains that the wording may be contradictory to the Statute 53-7-308 which exempts the ultimate consumer for their own use from licensure. Yet, R710-6.4.10.5 would still require that the dispenser work for a licensed company because it does not exempt “a business”. Brent suggests that “are not a business” be stricken from the wording and be replaced by “and the ultimate consumer.”
Next Scott Sowers of Basin Propane questioned the need of the rural rancher to be certified to dispense and Board Member Tom Clark whether his hot oil customers need certification to dispense without their company being licensed.
Kevin Duncan of Mountain West Propane has hot oil customers and wanted to clarify that the dispenser would need certification and as well as the driver but not the company. The driver would be exempted if he had a Hazmat License.
None are certified to date and there was discussion of how to write the rule for them.
The need for drivers of automobiles powered by propane gas to be certified to fill their gas tanks was also brought up. Tom Clark stated that it would be difficult to compete in the auto gas business if propane customers were required to be certified when natural gas customers were not. Kevin Duncan agreed.
Fire Marshal Halladay suggested that if the Board wants to change the statute on behalf of fair competition, now is the time to do so. The industry would need to move in the next couple of weeks to have a chance to change the law in the next legislative session. 53-7-308 could be changed to add an exemption for the vendor who is a broker or an end-user. Not only would the driver of the propane powered vehicle be exempted but also the rural rancher and the construction company dispenser. The Board could stipulate through the rules that documented training be required.
Chief Paul Bedont had concerns that if an accident were to ensue due to the dispenser that the distributor who trained him would then bare the liability. Board Member Hone noted that the Industry doesn’t want to assume the liability but they do. He pointed out that it was easier to train new hires on the spot than delay by going through the state certification program.
Kevin Duncan of Mountain West offered that with his hot oil rig customers, he trains the manager, gives the manager an operator certificate and then it is the responsibility of the manager to train his employees who dispense.
Brent interjects that R710-6 Section 8.4 states “Those using self-serve key or card services shall be trained in safe filling practices by the licensed dealer providing the services. A letter shall be sent to the Division by the licensed dealer stating that those using the self-serve key or card service have been trained.” The Division has only rarely received a letter and suggests that the Board drop the last sentence with the letter requirement. The Division can notify the industry of this proposed change and then the Board can vote on the change at the next Board Meeting.
Fire Marshal Halladay asks the Board to direct the staff to initiate a statute change and then the Board can make changes in the R710 rules.
Chairman Cook asks if there is a motion to Table R-710 changes in Agenda Item #6 and to move forward with the recommendation by staff to present to the legislature a change in 52-7-308.4 to include “and certificate” in the wording. Tom Clark so motions and Paul Bedont seconds the motion. All are in favor and the motion is passed.
(52-7-308.4 would then read: (4) product activities: the sale, transportation, dispensation, or storage of LPG in this state, except that a license or certification is not required [to sell LPG where the] for a vendor who sells LPG but never obtains possessory rights to the product sold or [where the product is transported or stored by] the ultimate consumer [for personal consumption only].)
Brent Halladay is to go out in the next week to make contact with a sponsor. Tom Clark suggests Baron. Brent will send him an email.
There will also be no action on Agenda Item #5.
It was brought up that the Board had not actually voted on the adoption of the 2011 Edition of NFPA 58. Jay so motions and Tom Clark seconds the motion. The Board votes all in favor. The 2011 Edition of NFPA 58 is adopted. The rule with go into effect in the next couple of months or so.
Item #8 Old Business – None
Item #9 New Business
- Kevin Duncan with Mountain West Propane had new business with regard to the Hot Oil Companies. He had reviewed the current Propane Dispenser Certification Test and found that there were quite a few questions that were not applicable to the Hot Oil Company Dispenser and that there was other information specific to this industry that was not being tested. He has developed a training and test specifically for these dispensers. He has provided materials for the employees to study. n addition to passing a written open book test, the employee must have on-site training and supervised three times in the transfer. They are also given a written copy of the instructions to keep with them for reference. Kevin passed out copies of the test and the certification to Board Members and Staff. He asked if the Board might adopt this program for the Hot Oil Companies in lieu of the current Propane Dispenser test. Brent responded that if the legislature passes the proposed amendment to the statute, the State Certification would not be required and the training would fall back on the distributor. If the legislature does not pass the amendment, the Staff would be open to this training, as it is specific to the Hot Oil business.
- Brent had another topic of new business. He asked the Board to review the need for balloonists to pass a dispenser certification to fill their balloons. Sen. Bramble is a balloonist and to become a balloonist he had to pass a Federal examination to be licensed. The examination included numerous questions on filling propane for their balloons. He requested that the Federal License be used in lieu of the State Dispenser Certification. he State currently allows exemptions for plumbers, CTEP and RMGA Training. Sen. Bramble’s support of the statute change was mentioned. Chief Bedont would like Staff to review the Federal test to make sure it coincides or exceeds the State test. Chairman Cook so directed Staff to gather the information for the next Board Meeting.
- Chairman Cook shared with the Board the review of the Board being conducted by the State. Art Hunsaker, Legislative Research & General Counsel, sent an email to the Chairman with a questionnaire to be completed. A review of the State Boards is conducted every few years to determine whether that Board is fulfilling their mandate as given by the legislature and meeting the needs of their constituency. In addition to the Chairman, other contacts were requested for corroboration. Chairman will complete the questionnaire on-line the beginning of the week of October 17.
Item #10 – Next meeting date and time was set for Friday, January 20 at 10 a.m. at the Murray City Hall Council Chambers. Chairman Cook then expressed his appreciation to everyone for their attendance and input, as they helped the Board identify the needs of the Industry. The meeting was adjourned until January 20, 2012.